dating in thailand

Photo via Flickr Creative Commons: ngmmemuda

I used to joke with my married best friend here in Chiang Mai about dating. Wouldn’t it be great to write an anonymous blog about dating in Thailand as a western woman? I mean, the possibilities (ha)! That’s when she uttered this gem of a title: “You’re fucked. Definitely not literally.”

We had a good laugh about it that ended with that heavy sigh on my end. The sigh that means, “that’s funny as shit, but dammit, you are so right.”

So, with TCZP, I decided I would put myself out there, see what could happen. Even though I am perfectly content being single and not in a relationship. In fact, I don’t really have any desire to date. BUT, a part of this project is dating and meeting men on different online sites since meeting them here in my free time is pretty much not an option since when I’m not working, I’m working out. Or sleeping. Or spending time with people I care about.

A brief examination of the dating options in Thailand for western women seeking a western man:

OK Cupid

Since March, I’ve been fielding requests on OK Cupid for dates. Although I specifically state that I am interested more in learning about what men are looking for living here than a relationship, and that the date must be with someone who either lives here or is visiting longer term, it hasn’t stopped people from all over the world messaging me with ridiculousness.

Like these gems.

Some of which are just arrogant drivel that simply attempts to tell me I am wrong and can be better XX ways:

“I don’t know what’s worse: You writing about yourself in third person or you writing about being fat although obviously you aren’t. Well who am I to judge. Maybe you just master the angles. In that case I am sorry that you feel bad. And for me making fun of that. So I’ve read your post almost completely now. Never really hard from anyone that thai people would talking like that. Anyway. It shouldn’t be too hard to meet western men. A lot of them are actually no sexpats who would enjoy spending time with caucasian gal. So, enjoy your stay! And the best of luck. Maybe cut down a little on that ‘I am a writer and I am living my dream in thailand” crap and write some interesting stuff about ya. Just saying. Well anyway, I just came here because the pictures were cute. So there you have it.” [SIC] [SIC] [SIC]

Mind you, I responded to not one of those messages. And each sentence was an instant message.

One guy offered to fly up to see me from Bangkok, which just made me uncomfortable, particularly since we had exchanged maybe two lines of communication before the ask.

Then, there are the ones from somewhere far away, largely from India, that tell me they would like to get to know me better.

And, of course, the pervs who want me to read their erotica and tell them what I think.

So, delete. Delete. Delete. And delete some more.

After deciding that I don’t really give a shit knowing what men are looking for here because I see the men here and they are not men I want to date  … EVER … I decided to move on over to the dark side: Tinder.

Tinder

Tinder, as most of you may know, is  basically an App that lets you pick and choose potential “dates” based pretty much entirely on appearance and a super brief description. That’s it. And, in the not nice terms, it is largely used for people to go and have random sex and maybe, just maybe meet a suitable match.

Of course, the men I meet on Tinder here are in town for a quick jaunt mostly, and either the convo goes downhill quickly or I lose interest and have no desire to take a night off from the gym or my quiet days to go and have conversation with a passerby.

Things changed when I went to Europe though. The guys on Tinder there are locals. They stay put, and — joy of joys — they want to date a western woman. I was the one passing through, I held the intrigue and for the first time, guys were messaging me and asking me out, versus just engaging in mundane conversation of “how long you in town?” blah blah filler.

But, even those men living in Europe seemed to only want one thing: sex.

I mean, I started getting messages without even so much as small talk telling me they were staying at such-and-such location and did I want to come over because they are good kissers?

What? The? Fuck?

And, no. Just … no.

Then, I met someone on there who was engaging. Seemed cute. Seemed to have his shit together. The only downside was we never got to meet when I was in Europe, which meant the conversation continued with 5,000 miles between us.

Let me tell you this — 5,000 miles between a potential match kind of opens one up to being more up front. Because what’s the worst that can happen? You stop e-mailing? So, I let loose. I opened up like I had never opened up before. It was a whirlwind and soon he was planning to come here to meet me.

But, there were warning bells going off in my head. Friends waving red flags to me. (I’m not going to get into it because it is all personal, and while I am fine opening up about me, I am not fine with talking about someone else on here and their personal life confided to me.) At the end of the day, I decided it wasn’t a relationship I wanted to be in so I ended it.

JDate

As someone who would like to end up with someone of my own religious upbringing, although I am not really practicing, my best friend suggested I check out JDate. In Thailand. Which kind of made me scratch my head a little, because really? JDate exists in Thailand?

Guess what?

It doesn’t.

Sure, there is a drop down menu that lets the user click on “Thailand” but then nothing comes up with the actual listing for cities.

JDate fail.

Expat Dating Sites

I also looked at the expat dating sites on the fabulous inter webs. After doing some inputting, my results were handed to me. About one page of men my dads age. So, nope on those. Apparently, the expat dating sites in Chiang Mai are not utilized by the eligible bachelors my age.

Match.com

Match.com, back in the States, was my go-to. It was less annoying than e-Harmony and the quality of men was far better than OKCupid, Plenty of Fish and others. So, I decided to take a little swim through Match the other week. Similar to the expat dating sites, Match.com is definitely not utilized by many foreigners here looking for a western girlfriend. There were about 10 results for Chiang Mai within my age group. I didn’t even narrow it down to any deal breakers or anything. I just entered in the ages. And, yeah …

The friend of a friend

This. This is where I made the ultimate mistake. I met a friend of a friend. A friend of a friend who was in town for only a short while. This FOF, however, was super cute. Super polite. And wanted to spend time with me. For a long weekend, we spent a lot of time together, going out, eating, drinking, canoodling.

One night, laying together, I asked him if he had a wife or a girlfriend. He said “no” and then kissed me.

Cue melting.

I mean, a nice guy. Single. Handsome. Heaps of vacation time at the ready. There were no wedding bells dinging in my mind or anything serious, but someone who comes to town and can hold a conversation and is nice and nice to spend time with? Yes, please. Even if it is not often. It’s … comforting.

This shit doesn’t exist in Thailand for me. I barely get a hug, let alone a kiss. So, this was big. Temporary, but big.

And then, the shit hits the fan.

If you don’t know a lot about Thailand’s tourism industry, please, let me enlighten you for a brief moment. There are the beaches. There are the elephants. There are the treks. And then, there is the sex tourism. I cannot name more than one or two men I have ever met here who have not had sex with a prostitute while in Thailand. (Unless they are traveling with their significant other, but that’s a different breed of tourist.)

Turns out, not only was this great (!) guy down in the seedy sex tourism city of the south, but also married. Of course, I didn’t know that until after we had promised to keep in touch and perhaps see him on his side of the world, and when he comes back here to visit.

The shock when I read that was mind-boggling. The fact that he lied. It felt like I had been slapped in the face over. And. Over. And. Over.

Not to mention the sheer disgust when I learned from my friend that this FOF planned this trip to be top-secret. I wanted to scrub my entire body raw and vomit glass, that’s how furious I was. I am not that girl

So, moral of this long story? FOFs are now out. Unless they come highly recommended, but most men I know here would rather their buddies get laid than ruin the chances. And, I’ve never met a FOF through a female here and don’t really even know any females here.

Yes, it is a sweeping generalization, but I am keenly aware that Thailand gives men –either in or not in relationships — permission to act like sex crazed teens and while they can do whatever they choose, I’m not going to take sloppy seconds after some hooker in Patong.

In conclusion

Dating in Thailand: you’re fucked. Definitely not literally. Except for very special occasions. This little portion of my project is officially over. And, I am oh-so glad to just be done with even trying to figure the shit out. I much rather just go back to working on me and making myself happy.

Single life for this girl is just fine. Fine. And far easier. And sparing my feelings. And pain-free.

 

37 comments

  1. Four or five years ago, I tried using dating sites to meet western women and it was pretty much impossible as well… especially in Chiang Mai.

    It sucks how creepy a lot of men are in Thailand.. but it’s pretty awesome that you were willing to give it a go. Seriously dating out here can be terrifying!

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    1. What sites did you use? I looked into this quite a bit but found it very difficult to find western men here looking for western women here. If found heaps of dating sites, but all Asia. And yes, it does suck how creepy the men are here. It is like Thailand gives these guys permission to just be complete assholes and live out there pre-teen fantasies.

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      1. I tried OKCupid and POF. I remember exchanging a few messages with one lady who lived in Bangkok, but nothing ever panned out.

        Those types of guys give the rest of us a bad name out here. I’ve been asked questions like if Sunny was my main girl, or how much money I give her a month, etc. It can get a bit tiring.

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  2. Loved this Di. I’ve been online dating now for 3 years (at home, England!), and been on a couple of dates with men I’ve met through ‘normal’ methods too. I can safely say that it makes no difference which site/method you use to meet a guy, there are liars online, and liars offline!! I have a really good friend who met the love of her life on Tinder, so that’s good to know!! It’s just the luck of the draw, and the faith in knowing when the time is right you’ll meet the right guy. As I keep telling myself, it only takes one!! 🙂 x *jingles*

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    1. So true!! It only takes one! The good thing is I finally have reached a point where I am so happy with myself, I’m quite content being solo. Although, yeah, sometimes it sure would be nice to have someone to snuggle with. 🙂 Jingles my love.

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  3. Another great post! I have a friend who lives in Thailand and used to say the exact same things as you do, so I’ve heard a lot about the dating scene there…

    Although not as bad, Dubai has many similar elements. The transient nature of the place means that most guys (and by most, I’d say 90 per cent) are just looking for easy hook ups and nothing more. They all treat it like one long vacation – can’t really expect much in a city where you can get laid pretty much any night of the week if you’re looking for that.

    Saying all this, though, I was single for five long years while I was living there, and I finally met someone – three nights before I was leaving for good! We’re still together now and we’re about to go travelling indefinitely. I had also reached the point you had reached – I wasn’t interested in even dating. So I guess my mum was right – it does happen when you least expect it 😉

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    1. Thank you, Andrea! I have to say that watching the way men behave here, at least in regards to my FOF situation, makes me quite cynical and just disappointed and leaves me kind of just shaking my head and thinking I would far prefer to be single than ever be with someone who can justify behavior like that. As far as your relationship, that is amazing!!! I love it!!

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  4. you are very brave doing the dating sites thing Diana as lots of guys who use these sites are not doing it for long term relationships (i guess) , or if they are they are looking for a way to get out of the country they are in hence lots of guys from countries like India for western girls to get that visa (as you know most women get lots of friends requests from these guys on facebook also
    Sadly lots of western guys as you say go to Asian countries looking for Asian girls usually ones that are lot younger than themselves
    but you are a amazing person Diana you have beauty on the inside and outside and hopefully one day soon that guy will come along in CM and see the great person you are

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    1. Thank you, Alan! You are absolutely right about the men here, many of them do come here with the goal of getting a Thai wife or Thai girlfriend, or just indulging in the sex tourism. I appreciate your kind words! ❤

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  5. Haha this cracked me up. Good on you for getting out there and giving it a go. I remember the dating scene in chiang mai being nonexistent, and believe me it’s just as bad in China!

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  6. I clicked on this immediately because I knew I would empathize! When I moved to Argentina I had only recently ended a 4 year relationship. I constantly tried to force myself to date because I felt like it was the normal thing to do. All I got out of it was my Dating In Buenos Aires series that allowed people to find be amused by my ridiculously bad dates. I am happy to hear you are not going to worry about it. I know it’s hard not to miss hugs and even a good make out, but I know I preferred to just ask friends to longer longer with their hugs than waste any time with the creeps in clubs and bars. You have such a great like you have made for yourself, no need to let douches ruin that for you.

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    1. I teeter between going on dates and not going on dates. I still go on some, after all it is nice just to get a little dolled up in the jungle and put some effort in to my appearance and work on getting over that awkward initial conversation. But, I have also taken the pressure off myself because at this point, I truly am NOT looking for anything. It is more just to chat and perhaps make a new friend.

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  7. Doing research since I’ll be moving to Chiang Mai for two years for work this spring. I’m not looking to delve into the whole bar club prostitute thing, and feel anything online would just be a scam. Where do you meet westerners, even for just hanging out, and actually date like a normal person by knowing someone? I’m excited to go, been working in Africa and ready for a change, lol!

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  8. Hey,

    Just a passerby here, found your blog while looking for romantic destinations for me and my fiancee (found your post on Slovenia, then your post on Ljubljana/Slovenia and ‘Short-Term Travel Relationships’… cool read, thanks.).

    Now, a few comments.

    This entire blog post was an impassioned rant about the lack of suitable partners in Thailand.

    But let’s get be completely honest here. You mean that you can’t find a nice WHITE man in Thailand.

    Or don’t you? Is this not the case? Then a simple clarification would be much appreciated.

    Nevertheless – when we speak plainly like this, you nor I can’t ignore the embarrassing irony of the premise of your post.

    We both know that Thailand is in Asia. And Asia doesn’t have a lot of white guys. And even if there are a decent number, most are shacked up with Asian girls, or have brought a white woman over from their home country. A white guy-white girl romantic connection that occurs in a Thai expat community is the exception and not the norm (I’ll get into the WHY’s of that later, in a follow-up post).

    Anyway, I can see how that might be frustrating for a single white chick in Thailand.

    But ultimately, the problem is that you’re only looking for Caucasian guys in a geographical location that doesn’t have many suitable ones (Again – I’ll get into that in a follow-up comment below).

    But this is a self-imposed problem, no? Not unlike an Asian woman who goes to Europe or the American Midwest then bemoans the fact that it’s “impossible to meet a nice (read: Asian) guy”.

    Well… yes. Duh, even.

    Still, I can appreciate that a woman (or man) has preferences – everyone can date who they want, and I respect personal choice.

    But for the benefit of readers of your blog, I’m going to throw this out there.

    If frank, honest discussion is to be allowed here (I realize you probably moderate your comments), then I’m absolutely in the right to point out the unspoken social pressures and social conditioning that shape the “dating preferences” of white women in Asia.

    It’s not a pretty picture, and because of that, most people prefer to sweep things under the rug. But that’s just not my style.

    I’m going to stick my neck out and say with a certain degree of confidence that most white women don’t tend to see Asia as a viable dating scene/pool, but as an exotic backdrop/change of scenery for their USUAL dating habits.

    That means “Brad” from Monterrey, California. Or “Travis” from Austin, Texas.

    Or red-haired Fergus from Ireland. Or sexy Sven from Sweden.

    It’s not a stretch to compare a white female expat’s dating habits in Asia to making out with a handsome blue-eyed fella in front of an exotic, foreign wall tapestry in her living room. You’ve got the sea breezes and palm trees – and all you need is a cute white boy.

    That might make some white expat women sheepishly duck for cover, because it’s an uncomfortable truth. The reason it’s embarrassing is because it exposes a silent bias…

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  9. So the only real solution is to So I guess the only real solution or an expat gal is to expand your horizons and try dating local men.

    But I completely understand how that’s a whole new can of worms for a white/Western woman in Asia.
    Where to begin? The cultural conflicts. The differences are immense. And sometimes the attraction isn’t there (and that can be mutual, between expat women and local men).

    I can logically see how the search for a white male in Asia is “rigged” for a white girl expat in Asia. It does leave them out in the cold.

    That might beg the question, though: why isn’t it the same with white expat men and local Asian girls?

    Let’s talk about the white men living in Asia and Thailand.

    The white male population in Thailand is a largely self-selected population, and the commonality is that they’re all there for some local tail, in one way or another.

    Some are raging Asiaphiles who objectify Asian people (the men as push-overs who they look down on, and whose women they take, and the women as well… you know the drill), some are straight-up wh*re-monger degenerates that often can’t ‘get some’ from women in their home country and come to release their pent-up frustration, and others just want to try something ‘exotic’ while they’re here in vacation/on a job assignment.

    Many of them are guys who simply aren’t much to look at in their home countries, whether it’s Europe or America… yet in Thailand they’re seldom left wanting for female company.

    But this isn’t some ‘miracle’, or implicit proof of white male superiority over local Thai men.

    It’s simply the manifestation of the ‘economics’ of the dating game there – Western men come in throngs to leverage their ‘white privilege’ (in this case, it’s the Hollywood-tinged perception of white guys as handsome/charming/heroic – as well as a financial edge) to gain a relative advantage in securing a local female for physical pleasure/long-term companionship.

    Many have argued in the past that this trend of white men with Asian women worldwide was “proof” some biological imperative (… i.e. that white men are taller, more masculine, manlier, better lovers, have bigger peckers… blah blah) – but we all know that love and sex aren’t one and the same, and that regular, stable romantic relationships don’t usually form on the basis of only these things.

    For women in general, dating, sex, and love is a more cerebral game. It takes a lot of extended rapport to build a love-connection, and I can see why it’s hard for a white woman to connect with a Thai man, given the huge gap in culture. All the little non-verbal gestures that might melt the heart of a nice American gal are absent in the gestures of an Asian man from Asia, and vice versa (the dismay isn’t one-sided, trust me).

    There are numerous instances of more adventurous and open-minded white expat women who ignore this gap and attempt to form relationships with local Asian men, and sometimes the end results are heart-warming cross-cultural love stories.

    But I’d argue that this is still not the norm. Old habits die hard, I guess.

    Anyway. The situation is VERY different for white expat men in Asia.

    Let me be blunt here.

    Speaking from a male perspective, what the heck does a GUY care about rapport when it comes to the opposite sex – at least at first?

    It’s much simpler and different for men, since they are (1) visual creatures and (2) are able to compartmentalize emotions from sex.

    You see the most comically mismatched white guy/Thai girl couples in Thailand, and indeed all over the world. Over here in the U.S., Asian woman/white man couples like that are an inside joke. It’s kind of sad. But in Thailand, that’s the NORM.

    Many of these girls can hardly speak English (and the men not much Thai) – and even if they do learn each others’ language to a degree of proficiency that facilitates meaningful personal exchange, their cultural values and behaviors remain badly mismatched. The same cultural gap white women feel in regard to Asian men are still there for these couples too.

    Yet you see TONS of them scampering around happily.

    Do you know why?

    It’s incredibly simple, and it’s for TWO reasons
    .
    1) For Asian women around the world, it’s a sense of attaining privilege-by-proxy (the ‘pride’ they feel in securing a Western man) – and in the case of Thailand, it’s an absolute, real, measurable sense of financial security (“rich Westerners” – even if they’re not actually wealthy they have *relative* wealth, thanks to friendly exchange rates). That’s an attractive proposition when you’re poor.

    2) For white/Western men, it’s because the ‘falling in love’ generally happens after the sex. A Thai woman will show interest because of reason #1 above, and they go out, eventually have sex at some point. Then after going steady “love” simply follows as a matter of course. Men don’t need a connection first – they ‘need’ a warm body, and then the emotional connection happens during the post-coital smoke. Might seem crude, but it’s still true. This basically makes the “pre-coital rapport” requirement (a MUST for Western women) a much smaller factor for expat men.

    The above two factors easily explains why there are literally hordes of white, Western guy/Thai girl couples from all walks of life – whether they’re former hookers/bargirls or ‘normal’ Thai girls that aren’t prostitutes.

    And if you flip it around and analyze why white women aren’t as motivated to seek Asian men while living in Asia, the situation unfolds like this:

    1) White women from the west have grown up in a cultural context of white hegemony. All examples of male beauty growing up were WHITE, with a couple of black token examples that are largely ignored. Examples of Asian men are close to non-existent. Thi s generally shapes their perspective going into Asia.

    2) On top of that, the stark difference in culture really dampens rapport, leading to a lowered chance of ‘chemistry’.

    3) Then to further complicate things, women generally aren’t too attracted to men who earn less than them. If you’re an American girl moving to a developing nation… well it’s self-explanatory.

    4) Asian men are either (A) intimidated by white women – either through reputation or misguided perceptions; and/or (B) turned-off by the lack of cultural compatibility.

    And no matter how much Western women today trumpet more progressive dating norms (i.e. the girl asking the guy out) – the overwhelming majority of women seem to prefer to let a man approach them. Asian cultures have a more rigid and strict gender separation, so the Western norm of freely approaching a woman for a date will ensure two things in Asia:

    1) White guys will do what they know, and approach local women, even though it may not be ‘kosher’. They will fail most times, but at the end of the day it’s a numbers game – someone will bite. That’s how white expat guys end up with Asian girlfriends.

    2) Local Asian men will not approach women with anywhere near the same level of aggressiveness – least of all a white woman, whom many are probably intimidated by. That’s probably mutually unattractive to both white women and local Asian men.

    As you can see, it’s a random confluence of coincidental conditions as well as more structured social conditioning that make the expat dating scene more advantageous for white males – at the cost of local Asian males and whit expat females.

    A white expat woman can just accept it and complain until they go home to find a nice white man to have nice white babies with – or open their minds to other possibilities. It’s not necessarily an easy one, but it’s a simple choice. Yes – or no.

    And there it is – the whole story about the Asian Expat Dating Scene. Warts and all.

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    1. Hi Jake. Thanks for the comment. Actually, you are not correct in your assumption. I DID try to date Thai men. And I have nothing against dating Asian men in general. The fact is, most of them don’t want to date a western women. If you look at most of the relationships in Thailand, it is Thai men with Thai women, and western men with Thai women (or a significant other they brought with them, as you pointed out). Having lived there for so long, I agree with all of your points above regarding Asian women/western men. As someone who had a difficult time dating there — regardless of whether Asian or Western men — I was quite observant in what went on and the relationships between the sexes.

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      1. Hey Diana,

        Well, then… I stand corrected! And thanks for your response…. it’s comforting, in an odd way.

        Just so you know, I’ve been able to full understand + empathize with your past struggle for companionship in Thailand by looking at my own relationship.

        I’m an Asian-American guy, and my fiancee is a white American ‘mountain girl’ from the heartland (just throw in a bunch of Northern European nationalities/ethnicities and you’ll have an accurate picture of her – including the blonde hair).
        People of different backgrounds are often attracted to each other, perhaps because those differences are what they notice first and find interesting. Pretty logical and self-explanatory, and an oft-observed ‘phenomenon’.
        But our union was in no small part facilitated by our common language and culture. If you spoke to me on the phone and didn’t know my background or Asian last name you’d think I was a ‘Brad’ or ‘Travis’.
        So from the outset, there was complete and utter familiarity with each other, in spite of the stark difference in outward appearance – my golden skin against her rosy complexion, and my jet black hair against her golden tresses.

        Those physical differences really don’t make a real difference at the end of the day, but the differences in outlook, values and behavior (read: culture) really DO make a difference in forming (or hindering) relationships in the initial stages. That really can’t be understated.

        Of course, that isn’t an absolute requisite for a cross-cultural relationship as they still happen between expat women and local men, but I do think that not having a common language or culture (but ESPECIALLY the former!) makes it much harder. You still did not have that common ground with the local men, and that is a fact.

        No harm, no foul – it’s just (an unfortunate) circumstance.

        I guess I felt motivate to comment because I’m just a bit fed up with the attitudes of some Western expats in Asia with no real understanding.of the very REAL, ‘neo-colonial’ context under which they enter the region/country/culture.

        That means that systems of global white privilege benefit them in ways both visible (financial wealth) and invisible (in essence, what I’ve described in my long comments above).

        Many just go in there, exploit the locals like they’re commodities (usually sexually, in the case of Thailand), then go back home to their comfortable First World realities back home after a few years. They turn an entire nation and culture (and its people and all its history) into ‘an experience’ that can neatly be folded up and put away after a few months or years, like a book on a bookshelf.

        I mean, you can’t limit a (Western) person’s personal freedom to travel and live where they want, so these ‘injustices’ happen by ‘default’ in a system of global inequities in power and income. So it is what it is. C’est la vie

        IMO, the least expats can do is acknowledge that such unfair systems and social trends exist, and that they’re unwitting beneficiaries of such conditions.

        Most don’t however – or worse are in open denial (And that’s kind of rrrrr……….acist, in my opinion. Yep, I dropped the uncomfortable ‘R’ word, my apologies. 🙂 ).

        Anyway, I’m glad you tried your best to keep an open mind in regard to dating during your time in Thailand, and as I stated above I understand very well your gripes about the dating scene in Asia. It’s not your fault that local men didn’t seem open to it – it’s a real bummer, and that’s on them (But hey – living in Europe (which is AWESOME by the way), I’m sure that’s a distant memory for you now.).

        Thanks for your insight and your blog articles Diana – I enjoy reading them.

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  10. I am an 80 yr old widower searching for my second true love. I favor Asia because it reminds me of my first love of 50 yrs.
    My body and soul are nourished by Thia Massage and I respect this profession more than I respect caregivers in nursing homes. I rather these Thia have my money , and they seem much happier when they earn it..

    Intellectual analysis. is valuable and this discourse is good. I would add that most expat men are in Asia because they cannot afford the west as they have been wiped out by divorce, and become negative.
    Happily ,I am not a very emotional humanistic person,so I continue to enjoy this juicy adventure called life..

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